Sportism - Page 21

There have been some cracking vids on this thread, including my own, with GSDFan showing 2 excellent dogs, and Hans kind enough to show un edited raw training vids - always insightful and brave, not forgetting Duke.

When it comes to capable civil dog training - we share a lot of common ground.

Regards
Gee

Hans: "Obviously gsdfan is studying my forum and disagree with some explanations there."

Hans don't flatter yourself lol...I haven't been on your forum.

I am commenting on dog behaviors I have seen numerous times from defensive training programs.

I am equally as frustrated in having to "fix" dogs from defensive training programs as you are claiming to have to fix dogs from "sport" programs. Perhaps we are seeing the worst of each side or maybe dogs that are not capable of the work to begin with.

Assuming the dogs are capable of the work...

For dogs from sport foundation programs (that you say have an equipment problem) I believe the blame shouldn't be placed on their foundation as much as the trainers charged with bridging the gap from sport foundation to civil work. Or the owners/brokers who knowingly or ignorantly place them illprepared. Like brokers who put a schutzhund dog on a suit and sell it as a Police dog just for money.

I believe it's unfair make a blanket accusation ("dogs with a sport foundation will always default to equipment preference") and say all sport foundation training is rotten, in spite of all the trainers who make that bridge correctly, and all qualified and successful Police dogs around the world from those programs...that alone disproves your theory IMO.

I agree perhaps saying that's how everyone else does it is not a good argument, but saying that's how I've always done it is worse. Dog training has evolved, get out of your backyard and take a look, enter your dogs in a PSA trial. I am glad you claim you are always open to learning, I hope that is true.

Funny how those who dismiss sport titles usually have a kennel full of bought titled dogs... or dogs from titled dogs.

 

As far as the debate goes...I think this horse is dead.

"Dog training has evolved, get out of your backyard and take a look, enter your dogs in a PSA trial."

BWAHA, that I would pay $100 to a charity to see.

"Funny how those who dismiss sport titles usually have a kennel full of bought titled dogs... or dogs from titled dogs."

Haha, agree. Funny indeed but in a pathetic kind of way, especially coming from someone who invented a new word "sportism" to describe the alleged destruction of the breed.

GSD fan, in germany and czech, dogs need to be titled to be able to breed with them, that doesnot change their genetics or balance of drives, IMO,

therefore still disagree with hans no matter how much he writes

in testing and supplieing policedogs we test natural behaviour and look for dogs that will engage and bite with no equipment there

this is TEST, training comes after

now it is fact that some K9 centers who sell to USA provide dogs that are strong , all prey dogs, they focus on hard full grips, dogs taking pressure ON the bite etc. these dogs will be trained on hidden equipment etc and some of them will switch to biting real, some wont, we all seen the examples on videos

several vendors in the world we supplie changed their views over the years and let go of their desire for full calm grips and now buy dogs that will drop the sleeve en re engage to body, even if grips are not full on sleve or suit

I am still talking about green untrained dogs here,

so if a dog is a nice sport candidate and doesnot have any civil agression, you can change training as young dog or on older age how much you want, but he will never be suitable because he just dont have what it takes

you can train a dressage horse as much as you want, he will never win the steeplechase

so you need to look at your foundation material first and training second, if foundation is good, training will be easy and dog will save your ass when needit

Er a dressage horse has had thousands of hours training by fanatical experts and are worth tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Steeplechase horses are cheap disposable animals that most likely failed at racing and are given a final chance on route to become dog food. Like to pick a better analogy?

duke I absolutely agree, some dogs are not cut out for it...which i have said.

The direction of foundation training for a IPO dog certainly should different than for a dog chosen to be a police dog (if that info is known)...but it all involves equipment...so according to Hans "sport"

Regardless...if you have a good dog he is not limited by his sporty foundation.

This...

"Regardless...if you have a good dog he is not limited by his foundation"

GSD that is all I am saying,
good dogs will not be limited by sport foundation

not so good dogs can be trained fromday one for police but will never make it to the desired quality

VK, dressage horses are suitable for dressage because of genes, and breeders breed to dressage horses, to produce new dressagehorses, cant breed to a steeplechase champion and train the offspring to become super dressage horses

it is all in genetics, training is secondairy

dressage sires are not selected by breed, they are 100‰ selected by SPORTISM and sportism training.

Prager would hate yr analogy.

Performance horse people have to prove their creations in trial, dog people have the luxury of just making shit up.