USCA Sieger Show - Page 5

Momma,

You mentioned it's not a good idea to have the same judge at our National events. Also the same judge that gave one person VA1 at one show also gave the same person VA1 at the next show. You mentioed this was ; "suspicious," What did you find suspicious about it and what would have placed in front?

The "big breeders" did start like everybody else - the difference: they train, title, and show their dogs, they do have a club or are active club members, logically people interested in SV style do buy their dogs, or co-own them - it´s a well working network, and all of those "big breeders" had to work hard for their success.
None of them woke up one day and knew how to be successful...

You really wonder why they get the better placements? It´s the result of good breeding, and good training - the dogs are well trained for the show ( not 2 or 3 times "pulling on leash" prior to the show, but regular ring training for months ), and believe me, in case there are 4 dogs of the same quality, the best trained dog will be in front.

The average dog owner tends to "train" for the show in the best case 2 or 3 weeks on his own - no distractions, no handlers, no gun shots ( or the wrong sound: my dog was fine with the 9mm...and so on ).
They don´t like to pull on leash, they don´t like a stranger at the end of their leash, they feel uncomfortable in the ring, too many strange dogs around, the judge trying to measure them, or worse, trying to take a look at the teeth, jumping out of the collar, ears down, eyes rolling... I could go on and on, handled too many of them...

Not the fault of the dogs, they don´t know better. Most of them grow up in a nice yard, loved, and well cared for, but these dogs know nothing about a "world outside".

Forgot to mention: 10 minutes in the ring and they fall apart, that much about condition training...

It´s sad, because a lot of these dogs could do much better in case the owner would care.

Momma,
While I respect your opinion, but I think who trains the dog does matter.

When you train your own dog you gain valuable experience into who that dog really is.

It allows you to see what you have, what you'd like and what areas could use improvement.
Going to clubs and seeing other dogs also does the same thing.
I know what I have learned is invaluable.
But being a big breeder and buying or breeding a dog, sending it off to Germany for a quickie title as I have seen so many times so you can have it come back pregnant or ready to hump females for pimp dollars is not my idea of bettering the breed and the Sieger show proved it for me.
That doesn't mean there aren't good commercial breeders and some good results.
But I think all things being equal, people who title and train their own dogs have the potential to consistently produce better dogs.
But that's my 2 cents.
I'm sorry if I pissed anyone off, but I prefer to be honest.

"Dog1 is trying to give everybody lesson,but he was one of those who helped to break up WDA."

this is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read on this board. I was a WDA member for several years. WDA broke itself up when as a club the membership chose between the last president and a long time breeder/trainer/exhibitor.

Dog1 has some nice dogs, but he hardly has/had the clout to break up a national breed club. that had to come from the inside and I was one of the first for the exit when I saw the direction it was going.

Showing dogs is not that hard. Accepting that the dog you have is not good for showing can be difficult for some though and finding someone to blame is easier/cheaper than getting better dogs (for showing).

I blame illegal immigrants - bad hombres.

Dog 1 the VA 1 male in MO was nice but not top. The VA1 female in GA had no pigment, was less than impressive in the bite work but did have great movement. But better than some of the V dogs with better pigment and bite work ? I don't believe so. What the judges need to realize is that the public has become better educated and more knowledgable about the conformation = much harder to fool with BS favors.
The same in MO. This judge was questionably placing dogs by favor more than quality. Sorry, my opinion. He should never be allowed to judge in the USA again.
Dog 1, I think I know you as the man in the van at the shows. You may have a lot of knowledge but I don't think you have achieved great success with dogs and please do not take this as an offensive comment. The WDA failed because it became an organization to feed one kennels success in business not quality of the breed. The USCA is in trouble because the majority of the board members are working line people that have little to no understanding of structure. And then we have the somewhat questionable relationships with the SV Judges helping market less than quality dogs by top placements at our shows and trials. Somehow, some way we need to find the middle to find the success for the future for the breed in the USA.

vk4gsd, you would because basically you appear by your posts to be pretty much stupid. But if it floats your boat, sail on dude.

Yr prolly right, help a brother out by explaining in full detail what you mean by this comment;

"working line people that have little to no understanding of structure. "

I think you will go a long way in educating all the stupid folk on why top level show dog structure is better. The English dude at the forefront of the half dog, half frog debacle that absolutely disgusted the world public shares exactly the same opinion as you.

I don't bother dissing show people and their endeavours anymore because it causes a lot if conflict here.

You have made a very specific claim, please explain it in full detail.

Thanks in advance.

Vk4gsd, I did not say "all the stupid folk", I simple said you appear pretty ignorant. But that is just my opinion on reading your posts.
I don't diss working line people but wonder how they get qualifying scores at local trials but can't even get off a track pad at a National? So the owner/breeder become judges? That works.
No different than show line dogs that don't engage. How did they get their titles?
Sorry to hurt your feelings but there is a big difference between VA, V and SG. And the basic IPO can be done by all of the above.
I don't diss the working lines but they do add a lot of liability on the ownership of the breed when the dogs are perceived as "attack dogs".
There is deception in both sides, don't be naive.
And the manipulation and promotion of less than quality dogs are just hurting the future of the breed.
Just my opinion.

I wasn't asking about dog world politics. I was asking about this statement;

"working line people that have little to no understanding of structure. "

I don't want to put words in your mouth so please explain how the ideal show structure in your view better equips a dog for work, thanks.

You could be really beneficial to working dog breeders that "have little to no understanding of structure. "