Bolle Janaka X Kuffy du Triangle Magique pup in KNPV - Page 2

Super pup, super support for the training.

Have repaired the link hope works now better.
 

https://vimeo.com/145485380

Black that pup has super change of making a grate dog. And with that helper I have no doubt it will be one to watch. Would like to see updates if possible. Absolute best of luck ☺

Really nice pup. Nice helper work, good reads, right amount of pressure.

You folks that start your dogs off in defense, what age do you start at?
I could see more disadvantages than advantages starting a dog off with this method.
I could also see off field issues and socialization with this technique while starting too young.

@ Kyle what he actually doing is testing his genetics , you can see it is a well balanced pup
with very good drives, nerves with solid grip, this is some basic to start,
Some people like it some people waiting when the dog is older

Every handler . trainer has his own methods there are people who are just starting @ 12 months old
Every dog sport is mostly in prey scenarios today , but KNPV is not only the bitework .
Some people training defense scenarios when the dog is some older.

 

Why you see field, / socialistion issues  starting this age ?

 

What disadvantages do you see   ?

@Black Malinois, I have seen dogs that are not old (mature) enough start of in defense become unpredictable (nervy) in their behavior. Hair an hackle raising when the helper comes out, shallow grips and growling. Some helpers do not read the dogs well and keep the "pressure" too long, on weaker, not ready for the pressure dogs.

Dogs that are exposed to this type of training too early can loose confidence, untrustful of strangers. Which can lead to an unpredictable dog.

All dogs are different. 12 months is a good age to add pressure. I was hoping that they were not being started at younger that 10 months with the defense. Some dogs take a long time to recover when pressured too young.

Black, i guess Kyle wasn´t referring to this partcular vid ( would make no sense, because it´s a 100% prey session ) but asked about starting in defense "instead".
Trying to give an answer: Every dog is different, but at least I started at the age of 10 months ( +/- ), using no immediate pressure, but the alertness and suspicion of the dog ( strange behavior/movement of the helper, training in twilight, and so on ) - once again, NO pressure during this time of training, and no bites. The helper doesn´t even come close to the dog. The dog shows a positive reaction = the helper runs away and hides. After a while, the helper is able to come closer and closer, the dog is "ready" for the first bite. Worked for me several times.
Very important: I´m always supporting the dog , short leash, not tied up, but encouraging, talking to the dog, and the helper has to run away in an instant, as soon as I feel it´s necessary.
Later on not much difference to prey training ( main difference: the helper should never give the sleeve to the dog without me being at the end of a tight leash...). My dogs went through the IPO routine with high points in C, 2 out of the 3 dogs developed some prey drive later on.
This kind of training is not good for every dog, a lot of helpers don´t know how to do it, and at least my dogs were not very social, although well socialized and able to walk through the city with me.
Ah, I forgot there IS a difference between defense work and prey work - the "out" ONLY comes from me, NEVER from the helper, because the dogs are not playing, but fighting.

 

@ Kyle no worries this people know exaly t what they are doing.

@ Suzie you describe very good how they work in the IPO

Actually handlers in KNPV don,t think about all that prey and defense talk what we hear today
the dog most bite how or where they don,t care its very oldschoool . The different with the
KNPV and IPO IMO is that dogs  have more focus/ atention to the man/decoy not only the sleeve
bite work is on arm and the leg, guarding is the man not sleeve etc. its an other game.
Tou get a bettter view you must see the training in real life. KNPV test the weakness from
the dogs because their goal is not the sport points but most of this dog are going work
as a street LE dog  . KNPV people  wash out dogs very quick in IPO they give most of this dogs a second change

A video with a 16 year age helper and a young 12 months old KNPV  dog @ 2min 50 some civil training
with some litle  pressure. Most of this dogs switch very easy from suit to some civil work.

 

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3drwy2_knpv-training_animals
 

 

" @ Suzie you describe very good how they work in the IPO"

Now I am confused - what I described is how they normally NOT work in IPO..."
"Normally" they start exactly as shown in the vid ( no leg bites, though ), everything else the same preytraining.

Ok ok you describe it very good how you work in the IPO  wrong choice from word my  bad english fault

 

 Agree most of the  dogsport today start the same,  but it depends also where you train wich handler,

wich decoys,wich clubs etc. . Personaly like to start 6 /7  months and look good to the  dog

genetics  and make my own plan not every dog is the same. I believe also in a mental factor from a young dog.

and let him  grow important is take your time  a lot of people go to quickly  today.

Not saying the helper in the OP video   he has much more experience than me I think he realy knows what

he is doing.