Training ERROR or just a good dog - Page 14

MrDarcy: I am sorry I will not do so. I have thought that it is OK since it was my post.

@ Susie: LOL what is German attitude? Books were written on that. But since you asked I'll tell you how [people feel about geran attitude. I'll tell you  because I feel qualified since my family was victim of German attitude in every generation in last 200 years. It is the attitude which at least 2 x per century fks up entire Europe if not entire world. Sorry. I have no such beef with you but as I said - since you asked.

Susie
SV judges are individuals that have differing opinions and capabilities. Some are my very good friends, whom I highly respect. Some excel at show judging in others excel at protection judging. I was referencing in my last post those that excel at protection judging-and if you lived in Germany, with kindness I state ,you out of all people I would've expected to realize this.
You mixed Apples with the oranges. I simply asked if somebody was German because I got the impression for some of their posts they were a little biased. Now we all stand before God , the same, no one better and no one less . I wrote that the poster needs an attitude adjustment for their comment " who cares ". I take canine world very and the canines very seriously. I will tell you assuredly-how somebody treats their dogs will likewise treat a person in how they treat a person will spill over eventually to how they'll treat that dog. So if you have a who cares attitude about people in my opinion that's the last person I would want holding a dog leash. Somebody doesn't care, yeah they need an attitude adjustment.
In regards to Duke, I've only needed to read wanted to post to understand his position. Before he had written to me his canine vocation I had already known. And if you don't believe me Duke is been writing by the PDB for more than five years. Anybody having read any of his posts would be a blooming idiot not to realize that he's a professional and been interacting with dogs for quite some time.
Susie I can't always write on a simple post every single thought on my mind for my poster too long as they are. I will grant to you that when I said become the dog itself literally, I might better have express myself by having written," you literally become the essence of the dog ". And what I write is absolutely true. I don't take offense for what you write because 25 years ago I would've thought making a statement like that was ludicrous. Not my place to give a dissertation here, I will simply say leave it at that common : when two people interact are in this case a dog or a person interact, the minds literally right down to a neurochemical basis become one. One literally becomes the essence of the other. I will just give you this quick example-because it does relate to how we teach our children and our dogs. When you watch a movie and you see somebody get hurt, as if you are you, yourself, actually feel what that person feels. You relate to what that person is feeling. Your body and your emotions respond to that. In nonacademic terms I guess you would call that ' empathy'. Even a a movie/picture effects who and what you are . Likewise, someone looking at you and the projection of what you were thinking of feeling simultaneously affects them. That's not the neurophysiological scientific explanation explanation, but it has been proven undoubtably to exist and that's the easy way to explain it for all people reading this post to understand. When I look at a trainer I can look them in the eye and I can look at dog in the eye and tell you exactly what's going on what is being taught in what is being learned. You do undoubtably become the essence of that dog , if you choose to do so.

Just a heads up...if you're going to insinuate that I mistreat my animals because I don't care about how some strange person I've never met and never will, tries to train a dog...maybe you should take a trip to whatever church you go to weekly and get another lesson on how to treat and speak to people from whatever religion and book you subscribe to.

Insults are insults no matter how you try to cover them up by putting God or whatever in front of them. Not really surprising though, those that like to bring up phrases like "Now we all stand before God, the same, no one better and no one less." are usually the worst offenders of what the majority of religions preach.

Thank you, Prager, at least that was a honest response, although for me it´s more than sad that people whose families were heavily affected by German aggression still interprete "Germany" and the mindset of its inhabitants as dangerous or cruel.

I pretty well understand that it´s more than difficult to trust a country you made these experiences with, but 71 years after WWII I ( like almost every living German ) am not responsible for the deeds of my compatriots, and I hope, that none of us has to go through times like this again.

Centurian, this was your initial post:

"This is a very nice dog. The trainers although not completely lacking experience , they have a lot more to learn in working dogs. A lot more . The first bite seems to look nice. Nice dog ! But there is already the seeding of the possibility** for future issues, which is trainer created , not dog created ."

"Not only do they not help the dog channel itself but moreover they try to place the dog into a situation with a live bite."

Your next post:

"In regards to Duke, I've only needed to read wanted to post to understand his position. Before he had written to me his canine vocation I had already known. And if you don't believe me Duke is been writing by the PDB for more than five years. Anybody having read any of his posts would be a blooming idiot not to realize that he's a professional and been interacting with dogs for quite some time."

Sorry, but for me that´s the attempt of damage limitation, nothing else.

About the "judges" - your words:

"Some excel at show judging in others excel at protection judging. I was referencing in my last post those that excel at protection judging-and if you lived in Germany, with kindness I state ,you out of all people I would've expected to realize this."

You are right, I "realized" you are talking nonsense - there are show judges, there are IPO judges, there are RH judges, there are agility judges, but there are NO protection judges, never have been, in NONE of the clubs...sorry. So what are you talking about?

And now you don´t "become" a dog any longer, but "the essence" of a dog...

You may believe whatever you want, I believe that humans/humans and humans/dogs are able to feel and share emotions ( empathy, understanding ), but they neither "become" the other nor do they become "the essence" of the other.

The chance to be able to feel empathy is highly connected to early childhood and socialisation...

Oh, forgot to mention, I don´t wait until "I stay before god", I daily scrutinize myself, my standards for myself are pretty high, and as long as I am able to look in the mirror and to like myself, everything is in order...

I don't know if it's as far as Prager took it...but Germans and many other cultures are known to be much more straight forward and speak their minds without sugar coating everything because someone might take it the wrong way and get their panties all up in a bunch. Americans tend to need their hands held through any differing opinion, and really like the whole "say something positive before you say something negative" thing in order to not upset people that much. It's a nice tactic and especially in text makes it look like the negativity isn't as bad as it actually is. Most people call these "backhanded compliments" or a variation of them.

Interesting how the "Now we all stand before God, the same, no one better and no one less" person is the one making prejudicial comments about how one culture/nationality has a "worse attitude" than another and telling others to change their attitude because it's not as good as the one they have.

No BV, My comment that you need a attitude adjustment is based the person that you are or are not , not on your nationality or heritage. I see on this forum some very very biased people in how they treat other people . I stress that. And I am willing to bet other also do too. I see on this PDB , many posts being very inhospitable to other people. BTW having manners is neither positive or negative- it's having manners and respect. If I told you that part of my heritage was German or French or Belgium or Dutch , etc etc. I wonder if you would be so snippy to me . And I could be wrong , if I am , I apologize , but I see in your posts being extraordinarily preferential . That's all .. As far as I am concerned, what should that be to me anyway if you care for .0001 % or not . But if you disrespect/ belittle me I am right back at you- let's ee how thick skinned you are. ! Yes I can be thick skinned, you have to be growing up in a ghetto , but at the same time, growing up in a ghetto you learn respect , caring and to take no BS from anyone else. Just the opposite the thin skin- they don't say a word , they turn their head away , like a dog. BTW I do respect someone that is truthful ,in their thoughts, I know where I stand with them , rather than someone not being a straight shooter, a deceiver.
I welcome someone to disagree with me on the issue , on the issue* , with a sensible rationale. But not when they make snippy personal comments and they have no regard for anyone else. I want people to think for themselves and if they can suggest something better in thought , I appreciate the point of view , especially if it makes me better. Sarcastically stating to me : "who cares" and " only .0001 % etc " , when I have seen differently" , does not for me make me better or my dogs. That is destructive not constructive. Your phraseology is what set the tone , not your thought, maybe you haven't seen what I have. Respect.... even an animal will treat someone with respect and that has nothing to do with positive or negative. When you say who cares [about] .00001% or a dog getting hurt. ---well I made my point .
For the record , I did not say one Nationality is better or worse than any other. As a matter of fact I stated we all stand the same, every Nation has it's Angels and Demons. Their good and evil people. BTW I am multinational in heritage . I wrote posts based on a subject , my comments were based on a subject. I never made a derogatory remake about any nationality . If someone asks my heritage, that in and of itself is not demeaning. I just seems many people on the PDB are for Germany or USA with a few other nations too in smaller numbers. I didn't think you were from USA , that and only that is the reason I asked about nationality . I happen to love the German people and culture , have been to Germany many times , have taken a number of dogs there , get my dogs there, have become acquainted to the most famous Kennels in Germany , have a number of very close friends living there ! Several have come to my home too and stayed quite a spell of time with me . I mean no disrespect to it's Nationality- and ANY other nationality ! You are the ones that made it such an issue- you got defensive on a simple question. I would have said yes or no ,I am this or that , and proud of it - talk about having thin/thick skin sort to speak . You have made comments and conclusions that I did not make on your posts because of your personal thinking.
For the record , As I wrote in my post I was not thinking about Duke doing the training or not. Granted , perhaps I should have been more articulate , for that I am apologetic. But I explained my post with having the mindset of this being a normal dog training teaching protocol. The comment wasn't based upon Duke . I don't know what he looks like, never paid attention to him as far as looks in any video, not that I would know if that was truly him , since I never met him . I wasn't discussing the video of specifically him 'testing the dog for LE or PP program ' venue. You should be able to appreciate that . I try to make clear , yes it is a nice dog , a very very nice dog , but if one trains a dog like that in a [ regular teaching] , program there will be future problems. That is a legitimate opinion , if not in fact the truth. If I conveyed any other impressions then aqain my apologies for confusion .

Backtrack backtrack backtrack backtrack. Don't worry about covering your tracks, anyone that cares has seen your true colors. Second time in this thread you've had to make up some reasons of why you didn't mean what you said earlier.

Susie I hope you are right. We'll see.