Shiloh Shepherds? - Page 19

 I know I type for my own entertainment, but i have nothing better to do.

You see the Greyhound people and the Dobe people are not at arms at all.  Why should they be.  The Dobe was created to perform a much different task than the greyhound.  They aren't even similiar.  And the Dobe people weren't going around saying the greyhound can no longer run.  It's hips are shot, the temperments are crap, you can't live with them and they've gone downhill, but here, we have a better breed called the Dobe.  The dobe is the greyhound of your childhood, the dogs you fell in love with, not the crap they're breeding today.  These are the dogs legends were made of, not the dogs they call greyhounds today.

You see that never happened.  Now that would be more accurate.  But what YOU did, was tear down the GSD to create your own little niche.  You try to convince people the GSD of yesteryear no longer exists.  You claim that a GSD can no longer protect your family and be your kids friends, you say they are too hyper or too angulated with bad hips.  You say the dogs the legends were made of and that we fell in love with as kids aren't around anymore.  YOU say these things and then say YOU are breeding that old world dog.  You create the vacuum, then try to fill it with your glorified stories about your mixed breed, that by now I agree is definitely no longer a GSD.

But you see, you can find that dog from your childhood, and it is called a GSD.  They're still easy to find.  Sure the waters have been muddied by crap breeders, but that's not an excuse to say they're all gone and don't exist anymore.  But it sure is a nice and handy excuse and one that plays on people's emotions rather than senses to try and sell something you've created.  That's why people get  a bit testy when this subject comes up.   But if you haven't figured this out in the past 40 years or so, i'm guessing this post won't make much difference either.

 

Why don't t you just brag about your own dogs instead of trying to "put down" something you don't understand!

Perfect advice, but then that would take away your whole selling point wouldn't it?  you wouldn't be able to tear down the GSD to sell your dogs now would you?  I guess it's safe to say you won't be taking your own advice will you???????

Tina I am not freaking about your dogs.. I don't understand why you get this idea that I am freaking about something, or trying to get you upset or I smoke some hash or whatever.

I honor people who are not afraid to try somethig new and actually stand behind their results good or bad.You seem very passionate about what you do. I am not going to go into the development of any breed.
All I am talking about is that you are stating that you breed old style german shepherd.. which I absolutelly disagree as I dont see the STANDARD  including 130 pound GSD-malamute cross and those should be the GSD you are talking about right? within the standard I assume or did your grandparents had a GSD St Bernard cross)
Maybe saying " breeding a dog that resembles the GSD in looks but has more substande and less drive to be able to handle by any pet owner or service or whateveryour goal is would be more accurate.
If you tell me  that you remember the old style gsd.. what comes to my mind is a 64 pound female and 80 pound Gsd male. My uncles service dog that was 85 pounds, my male that was 78 pound. My grandpas war dog that was "maybe 75 pounds)

I just dont see where those dogs were 130 pound crosses.. to you it is unecessary, to me it is crucial..
 Anyway I am done here because we have a different opinion and that is it. To me those dogs do not look like anything from my childood...

P

"I just dont see where those dogs were 130 pound crosses.. to you it is unecessary, to me it is crucial..
 Anyway I am done here because we have a different opinion and that is it. To me those dogs do not look like anything from my childood..."

Of course they don't.  They don't look like ANY of Capt. Max's GSDs.  All you have to do is look at old photos to see this is true.  Photos not only from breed books but historical photos of working GSDs from the time period when Tina would've been a child.  NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Now, Shilohs MAY look like dogs Tina saw in her childhood.  Heck, I grew up seeing a lot of Field Trial beagles in the the 1960's-1970's when I was a child, but if I bred to THAT physical standard, I'd be doing the beagle breed a great deal of harm (LOL).  So it seems to me that she saw/lived with/whatever a bunch of totally incorrect GSDs, but they were called GSD, and how as a child would she know anything about breed standards and quality? So now she may be trying to "re-create" the dogs of her youth, and she thinks they were quality GSDs.

Heck, I grew up seeing a lot of Field Trial beagles in the the 1960's-1970's when I was a child, but if I bred to THAT physical standard, I'd be doing the beagle breed a great deal of harm (LOL).




^^^^^  Why do you feel that way?  The beagles from your childhood were working hounds?  Why is changing their
appearence for the show ring "better?"

GSDPACK....

"breeding a dog that resembles the GSD in looks but has more substande and less drive to be able to handle by any pet owner or service or whatever your goal is would be more accurate. "

I like that sure dos fits the breed (Shiloh). That is what attracted me to the Shiloh.

"But what YOU did, was tear down the GSD to create your own little niche. You try to convince people the GSD of yesteryear no longer exists. You claim that a GSD can no longer protect your family and be your kids friends, you say they are too hyper or too angulated with bad hips. You say the dogs the legends were made of and that we fell in love with as kids aren't around anymore. YOU say these things and then say YOU are breeding that old world dog. You create the vacuum, then try to fill it with your glorified stories about your mixed breed, that by now I agree is definitely no longer a GSD.

But you see, you can find that dog from your childhood, and it is called a GSD. They're still easy to find. Sure the waters have been muddied by crap breeders, but that's not an excuse to say they're all gone and don't exist anymore. But it sure is a nice and handy excuse and one that plays on people's emotions rather than senses to try and sell something you've created."

Exactly.  You can make this go away, Tina; simply stop hyping your dogs as the only "real" German shepherd Dog because thay're not even close.  If you have created such a wonderful new breed, let ot stand on its own merits and quit trying to ride on the coattails of the popularity of ours that you have so profoundly bastardized. 

^^^^  Why do you feel that way?  The beagles from your childhood were working hounds?  Why is changing their
appearence for the show ring "better?"

Field Trials at that time changed from hunting hounds to footstep tracking hounds.  The fiddle-fronted, extremely poorly built beagles were slower than the correctly conformed hounds.  The winning field trial dogs, the working dogs if you will, were of course bred to, with no regard for structure (looks).  Sound familiar?    So they "worked," but they looked hideous.  And the "work" they did was footstep tracking for field trials.  If you wanted a dog for actual rabbit hunting, you sure did not want a field trial champion.  You wanted a hound that would push the rabbit (cottontails run in a big circle) around to the gun and you didn't want that to take forever like it would with a field trial hound.  Like the division in GSD, there were people who saw this negative trend and fought against it.  Eventually the Pack Trial Option was introduced, for a hound that could actually hunt productively instead of plod along at a footpace.

I don't know what the situation is in field trials today.  I do know that there are conformation champions who successfully compete in pack trials, though.  Like with the GSD and other breeds, there are breeders who breed for both form and function.

LOL, the first beagle I had was whelped in 1965.  If you looked at her pedigree, she was a combination of both AKC conformation champions and field champions - this was not unusual.  She was used by my father and brothers for rabbit hunting and she and her descendants were fantastic.  As we met people and became involved with field trials, we took her along first.  She didn't do well.  They are called brace trials because the beagles are run in braces (2 hounds is a brace).  Our hound would find and be off like a shot and be 500 yards ahead of her brace mate.  FAIL.  Like SchH tracking, the judges wanted to see the nose placed in every footstep.  We then bought a field trial bred dog.  When in Rome, right?  This was a great little dog, but ooof, although he had the sweetest face, his body was typical field trial hound: very fiddle-fronted, long (weak) back.  As a result, no way could he possibly have the speed and endurance of a true hunting hound, and with time, incorrect structure breaks down.  With age they're going to have back problems, for instance.  But if you only breed for working ability with no regard for conformation, this is what happens.  Not to mention that you will also lose the typiness of your breed.

So is this your reason to start this breed to recreate old style gsd the ones from your childhood?  If so you are the one pissing in the wind the gsd i have laying under me now looks a whole lot more like the ones my grandfather had in the 50s then the dogs on your web site.  If you wanted to start a new breed thats cool but talking bad about gsds and saying they are no good is bs and you know it.  You will continue to make us gsd people mad as long as you say you created this breed because gsds are crap now.  If you want to sell your dogs as a new breed have at it and good luck but don't keep bashing gsds and tell buyers that you cant get a good gsd any more cause thats bs.  We gsd people will never give you any respect as long as you are selling bs stories instead of dogs.  This is going to hurt you in the long run when your buyers start searching on line and find these post.  Why don't you just tell people the truth you will sell just as many dogs and make alot more friends along the way.

Hey Ninja- I have the pedigree if you want it.