Panzies - Page 3

If i read this right you bought these dogs older and they were shown? well part of the problem could be they were from kennels where the dogs are produced and shown by multiple people perhaps where they are used to just anyone walking into the kennel or to the crate and getting them? Maybe you should start from puppy and raise your own and do the work so that they are how you like them? I have a showline female, I asked for the hardest pup of the litter and female as both those qualities are my preference. I have raised her to be social as Blitzen and other can attest she accepts people willingly she is strong in temperment and nerves to new suroundings and happenings but there is not a doubt in my mind she would protect me given the need. She is not afraid of anything yet she can be trusted. If you want dogs to be a certain way sometimes you need to be the one to ingnite that in them but they also have to have the right ingredients existing to make what you want of the dog. It was very important to me to find a breeder that raises the pups how I wanted it raised and I found one that did so. I dont know the temperment of her sire, it was his looks I couldnt help that, I of course asked about the dams and took a gamble. I have seen many that are weak nerved and some that simply do not show a harder dog unless provoked or senses a real danger too. These are intelligent dogs they may just be smart enough to determine on their own there is not a threat. Sounds like you have alot of people out and around your home on a regular basis, perhaps they think this avaerage and that they should not alert too. I hardly have anyone at my door there is no doubt she is present to any visitor when I do lol

There are lots of dogs out there who are not very expensive but will still be what you want, and are better dogs than those you would pay five times as much for. You only have to look around. Rich people don't own all the best horses...those who have to be careful with their money often own BETTER animals. When I was in horses, I went to look at horses on the hundreds of acres millionaire-owned ranch in Texas. The ranch manager and I drove around humongous pastures for quite a long while, and I saw at least couple hundred horses, none of which I wanted...until I saw The One. I pointed excitedly to the magnificient grey mare..."That one! That's The One!" The farm manager had to stop the truck, he was laughing so hard....that was his wife's only horse! She was not for sale, either : (

OOPs, I meant, Rich people don't own all the best DOGS (or horses). I was responding to the comment by Immyjay comparing his experiences in the dog world to those he had in the horse world.

This is long, but just to say I hear you! Except, don't ever wish for your dog growling at you. Better a goofy nice dog, than an asinine vicious liability. My GS now is pure Euro (not sure which classification, but think mostly show), raised her as a pup, and from day 1 (yes, literally, when I brought her home – so it wasn’t me) she was a wimp. I say Tara was “scared of ghosts” – bags unfurling naturally were terrifying to her, and so was anything that happened to fall over. Garbage cans scared her because they could fall over. Her 1st few nights she showed fear of shadows in the yard. Besides “ghosts”, she was afraid to catch balls or anything coming at her; she’d check it out after the fact to play. She and I have gradually worked her out of these problems – now she seems quite stable at 4, not scared of much at least up front. But then, she has also shown food aggression at 2 – and periodically we have problems with that. Tie this is with the fact, also from day 1, Tara was all too anxious (literally – she has colitis problems, BTW) to prove to people that she was no threat. She is a hurricane of anxious desparate greetings to everyone who gets close to the house. She’s not a good guard dog, and is still working on even noticing that anyone comes to the door until it’s “too late”. She’s getting better, finally sometimes being triggered to bark at people who ring or knock (but immediately changes into love fest if they come in). But she’s 4! How long does it take? My beloved Shana was half American (ooooo so wimpy, right?) and half working Euro (SchH3 DAM). The dog was the picture of perfection, especially in temperament department. A natural guard from the get-go, properly suspicious of visiting strangers, she’d relax in a reasonable time and warm up when Master showed everything was OK (and as a co-worker said, “She’s scary as hell when you come to the home, but when you’re there a while, she’s the nicest dog!”). But even ever-visiting sister and cleaning lady had to contend with her guarding every time (but they could relax and remind her by repeating her name). The dog NEVER ever showed true aggression, just assertion. And yes, she was dominant. A beautiful example of her natural fine-line balance between guarding and relaxing was when a boy ~12yo came to our home to ask to mow lawns. I was wedged in the door to talk to him, to keep Shana from getting out (I hadn’t grabbed her chain in time). However, I was unsuccessful as the vehement barking guardian pushed through the small opening. The boy started running immediately, and Shana was after him. As I saw her jaws within inches of his ankle, I yelled out “DON’T RUN”. Amazingly, the scared boy obeyed and immediately halted! Shana then lifted her head and ran right by him, no harm done; then she came back in. (Note, this dog “HATED” UPS men who were always coming to our house to leave off business items – she hated how these brown guys always ran up then away from the house, ringing bells, without ever introducing themselves.) Guess she knew the precise difference between potential threat and not, and when to “release”!

If I didn't love Blitz I'd be willing to trade him for one of these dogs that loves everyone LOL.

Working lines/ show lines Judge a dog on his own merit. There is nothing wrong with being friendly/ I like a nice social dog. The 2 police dogs I am currently training are very social but grab the handler and the fight is on. I have had nothing but working line dogs for the last 12 years. I too always thought of the show lines as couch potatoes so when my kids wanted dogs of their own and considering I wont have a fluffy fru fru dog in the house I bought two show line females from Germany. What a suprise I got. They are like little tasmanian devils. Hyper, wont sit still in everything, what happened to the nice couch pottatoe show dogs. They have alot of drive. Ended up now I have 2 working line females that hangout in the house and sleep with the kids and the show lines are in the kennels. Your dogs may be showlines but the problem is a temperment problem. Being friendly is not the issue, I would say the afraid of everything includeing loud noises is.

Since getting Blitz I've never quite understood how showlines got the reputation for lacking drive. He almost makes me nuts. Tasmanian devil is a good description of him too. I swear the dog sleeps with one eye open. If he had anymore energy, I'd be institutionalized LOL.

I have a workingline male, a show/working line female and an American showline female. She is the one to watch. The other two I raised from puppies. The female loves the sleeve--worthless as a watchdog otherwise. The male will bark outsoide, worthless as a watchdog otherwise--licks everyone to death. The American female has the perfect temperament, she is very aloof and will bark at anyone, not other dogs, though. She has never bitten anyone but I really believe she would if pressed to. Do I believe the male would? Absolutely not--he shows all the confidence in the world is scared of nothing and the other female is scared of nothing but worthless as a watchdog.

I too have one of those "showlines"...he has no drive for schutzhund....but as I have posted before..he saved me from an intruder who came into my backyard while I was sunbathing...my dog was in the house..no barking nohting..all of a sudden before I realized there was someone there..he was out his dog door and all over the guy..thats the only thing that alerted me was the guy screaming!! I loved it. My dog is only 15 months old. If my dog is in the house and the doorbell rings he does not bark...I prefer that due to having a teenager with tons of kids in and out.. but when the ups man or fed ex comes and rings the bell and I open the door my dog is in front of me so fast..no bark just protecting..he doesn't even get up for the kids..lol... Dogs know..and I bet if you needed to be protected at least one of them would if they feel bonded to you. If someone tries to come in my gate (i'm in the back yard quite a bit and everyone knows to come back there) he will bark there and if they just come thru he is right in their face until he realizes who it is..then he says HI and comes and sitz by me.. I would take this temperment any day over an overly aggressive dog who cannot tell the difference between a threat and a friend.. btw my 5 year old can climb all over him and he just lays there and smiles....

About 25 years ago I helped my sister acquire a dog which was out of a Lance of Franjo son. He was easy going, calm, and very friendly to everyone, kids, neighbors, delivery folks, and strangers (he was a happy dog with a lot of natural confidence and loved obediance). My sister was concerned that this 90 lb. stallion wouldn't protect them since they lived in an area with a significant number of breakins. The only time the dog ever got aggressive and barked in his 13 year life was when they were camping in a national park. During the night a ranger unzipped their tent. There had been a rape in the park and he was going to every tent to search for the perp. The GSD went ballistic and chased him to a pine tree close by which the ranger jumped up into. The dog then did a bark and hold. The dog did the job when the need was there. I suspect there are many GSDs out there which would do the job in a pinch. But of course, the nice thing about having a proven and hard dog with a sch degree is the controllability and certainty of his ability to protect. But this means the dog had to be suitable to start with and has the proper balance of total mental soundness, prey drive and pronounced defensive reaction when appropriate. An unsound dog with a sch degree can win in competition but does not make a good pet. Knowing what total soundness is can be vital to selecting a great house pet which which serve as a reliable and stable protector.