Accepting a new master/loss of owner - Page 3

@bzcz, than congrats to your club/training group for being practical.  What you have said is not the universal sentiment among clubs in my experience. I too have titled in the FH, certainly not to your level, but I also do AKC and I still stand by my point that AKC dogs transition better to the FH than the TR/FPr trained dogs do to the AKC test or the FH.  My experience is not universal, but I have seen it enough times to make the conclusion that some IPO clubs are doing it wrong. 

Plus I did add, an FH trained dog without a BH can move over to AKC tracking without a hitch and later do the BH followed up by the FH, however, I personally feel a TR/FPr trained dog will have a VERY tough going on the longer length and more aged AKC tracks.  In fact I've never seen a dog make that kind of transition very easily, but I have seen AKC tracking dogs go on to title in the FH with ease.

I was thinking that this person may NOT do a BH immediately, so an AKC tracking title is within reach, with the FH coming later when the dog is ready to do the BH. 

You and I seem to be arguing about the order of training, not the overall concept.

What a beautiful expression, Prager, "A Solid Point in the Universe."  

Working in Hospice, people often asked,"How long does this painful grief last?" The answer is "Forever."  Life layers over it, & makes it easier to deal with, but that is what takes time. You are grieving, your brothers dog is grieving; take the time to let this wash over you. Establish a routine, things that happen every day that you can both anticipate; try to avoid other dogs for now. Cuddle, if she'll let you. I agree that you should do an obedience class, but when you both feel ready, not right off the bat. Please be sure she doesn't bite anyone, or their dog. That would just compound this sadness. I hate to say muzzle her, but maybe have one just for those times you can't avoid another dog at close quarters. And follow Pragers advice, look for that familiar place, thing, or activity; so that you can see the light come back into her eyes.

Meanwhile, I will pray for you.

jackie harris

Dog is 5 years old set in her ways with owner with whom she was since 8 weeks of age,  who is now gone. She is grieving and will forever as Jackie said.  Transfer  dog like that will be harder  then with 3 mo old pup or young dog. Take it easy. Go along with the dog, not against it. Respect her. Let her tell you what she wants and do what she liked to do with her original owner. What you think is fun is not necessary fun for her..  She does not understand. If it would be younger dog i would say hell or high water we go and will do what is fun- Ta daaaa. But with this dog who is obviously sensitive you would alienate her with such a direct approach.  But time will heel it all. If you show her love and respect then, when she realize that,  she will be great dog for you. 

 I am still posting on this because I feel sorry for her and I know how older dogs like this feel in such life changing situation. I have seen dogs gets physically sick, drooling and not eating sometimes for days or even weeks. They are loyal to death and animals of habit. I have dog named Bady. He was owned by my partner Jiri in Czech. Bady was here for a 2 years and Jiri came to visit. You would not believe how happy Bady turned in the instant when   heard Jiri when he entered the house ands run looking for him. It was amazing.

 Also to the mind comes story of Hachiko Akita dog loyal dog of Japan.  Here is the story :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJxgu8TtIWI

 Japanese recognize loyalty as one of the  highest if not the highest  virtue.

Prager Hans

@momosgarage,

No, we are arguing about the style of tracking.  FH is taught and judged to the same standard as the IPO (SchH) tracks.

It is all based off of the same standard and point structure and comes from the same source.

This is all off topic though.  The relevant part is that the FH is difficult.  Don't train for difficult first, especially with a dog who is not settled on where she fits in the world.  You teach her in little step (the TR1 in the FH scheme of things) and progress as she can/wants to. 

Or do something else, the TD if you want, it doesn't matter.  the OP needs to find activities to bond with their dog.

Some dogs bond readily, some take a little more work, but they all will once you find the keys to their heart. 

Nosework is a blast to watch;  makes them really enjoy something without too much physical demand, yet they are using their brains.  Loved it.  Best of luck with this girl and am so sorry for your loss as well as her loss.  Better days ahead for all  Nan

PS:  I have not seen a dog that did not love nosework... 

@bzcz, I do not want to belittle your accomplishments, but when you say the "FH is taught and judged to the same standard as the IPO (SchH) tracks", I'll have to strongly disagree.  I will ask if you have done any AKC tracking and what part of the world are you in? 

From my perspective the AKC TD is more difficult than the TR tracks, but judged more loosely than the FH.  Also the highest AKC tracking title, in my opinion, is a little less difficult than the FH.  I'm not sure where you are in the world, but in my neck of the woods TR trained dogs are ill equipped to move on to the longer TD and FH tracks, due to poor training techniques (and people around here seem to follow it like its the gospel).  Your club/training group likely has better methods than the clubs I have visited, so we may not be disagreeing as much as you think. 

Breaking the FH down to "little Steps" is a workable strategy and when cross track and variable surface are taken into consideration over the long term, the dog can do AKC in the short term, UNTIL its passes the BH and is ready for the FH, the reverse, using the TR as the foundation, is typically not a successful route.  I'll say it again, an FH trained dog without a BH can move over to AKC tracking without a hitch and opt to later do the BH, followed up by the more difficult FH.  However, I personally feel a TR/FPr trained dog will have a VERY tough time on the longer length and more aged AKC tracks.  In fact I've never seen a TR trained dog make that kind of transition very easily, but I have seen AKC tracking dogs go on to title in the FH with ease.  We have different observed and personal experiences, likely due, solely to geography.

But, back to the main issue at hand, scentwork/tracking is typically not overly stressful for the dog, but at the same time builds a similar positive dog/handler relationship like obedience training would.  I personally discount TR/FPr tracking for this particular situation because its taught far more harshly than AKC tracking, STP, nosework or FH by clubs in my geographic location.

@momosgarage,

You can disagree all you want. Doesn't change any of the facts.  It is in the same rulebook that is written by the same people as the TR (IPO) tracks. It is also judged by they same people who judge the IPO tracks.  Having, tracklayed, trialed and coordinated these tracks all over the country, I'll ask you.  On what basis do you have to say that they are judged differently?  Do you have a rulebook stating that?  What judge does the judging for an FH?

I stay out of AKC tracking with my dogs because my goals are different than what AKC tracks are.  I watched a couple of AKC events in order to come up with that decision.  (granted that was over 20 years ago and things always change)

Your statement about TR (IPO) tracking dogs not able to track a FH I also don't understand.  Most FH dogs are already titled in IPO.  In fact the WUSV FH Championships they all have an IPO title of some sort.  I have seen just a handful of untitled (non IPO) dogs ever achieve a FH.

Again, the FH title is written by the FCI, is under FCI rules and judged by FCI judges (not AKC judges), the same as the IPO tracking titles are.

@bzcz, I can sum the differences that I have personally seen with a single sentence from the rules:

"Judges are allowed more subjective evaluation based on changes in difficulty of the track"

The judges where I live, look for a deep nose with no casting, in order to pass both the TR/FPr and the tracking phase of the IPO1-3.  In my experience, the judges which I have seen, will allow some air scenting and wide casting off the track during the FH, which they WOULD NOT normally allow during the IPO 1-3 tracking phase.  Like I said you have competed at a higher level and specifically in German Shepherd only venues, so there is definitely room for varied experiences between us.

You repeatedly mention the WUSV and USCA, so of course, dogs from those organizations have earned the IPO first, BUT realize that there are other FCI affiliated international venues offering the FH title and other breeds are competing in them too.  When those FCI judges put the title in the scorebook, its weighed the same as any other, even those done within the WUSV and USCA.  Its not all GSD's at the WUSV and USCA getting the FH title.  So of course you don't understand what I am describing, with AKC dogs crossing over venues.  I've seen your side of the fence and compete in it, but you haven't done the same in my venues.  So in summary, your TR trained dogs may not have any deficiencies due to good training methods, which you as an individual practice, but that's not the norm from where I am sitting.

Also for your review, are some IPO-FH scores from back in 2012, where a Labrador placed decently (who's whole career is based on solely on FH and RH):

http://dogcompet.ru/en/competitions/ipo-fh-2012.html

http://en.universal-dog.eu/dogs-details/2327786/Amira-von-der-Kranebitter-Klamm

Oh good grief.

Momosgarage wrote, " Its not all GSD's at the WUSV ...."

Enough said. 

Lets stick to the topic at hand.  If someone wants to talk tracking, start a new thread please.

@bzcz, umm...you left something out when misquoting me, which I will now bold for everyone to see: "Its not all GSD's at the WUSV and USCA getting the FH title"

"BUT realize that there are other FCI affiliated international venues offering the FH title and other breeds are competing in them too."

So you want to "soundbite" ME, and stating "good grief" is all you've got?  I should be the one saying good grief!

I made my point and you now have some new data to ruminate on, which unsurprisingly, may contradict your existing assumptions about the FH trialing world as a whole. 

My MAIN POINT was that this original poster may NOT attempt the BH immediately, so an AKC tracking title is within reach, with the FH attempt coming later when the dog is finally ready to do the BH.  One way I recommend accomplishing this would be to bypass the TR/FPr and instead training for the FH structure, doing AKC tracking trials in the mean time, until the BH is completed.

The OP may not even be into competition, but I don't see how they can avoid such a training environment, especially if, they pursue something other than general obedience.  So providing them with some idea of whats out there, is way better than simply telling them "just go do nosework, or tracking, etc"

The OP can decide if what I wrote is valid or not for their situation.