Vets stumped, need suggestions!!! - Page 6

Melissa:  Have you heard of Vetionix,  they have an anti-inflammatory formula good for arthritis, etc.  Also have a pain formula that is fabulous, I use both on my 14 year old girl, she stays on the one for arthritis, and I only use the Pain med one when she tweeks something and usually only have to give her one dose.  Just a thought,  and if they don't work, Derrmax is a better anti inflammatory than rimadyl, with less harm to the body if you can still get Derrmax.  LIke it much better. 

Just put in Vetionix.com and it will come up.  I order over phone and they ship immediately.  Will be much easier on Sarge's system, will not kill off the liver and kidneys like the western medicine stuff;  is holistic, but works.  BOL  Nan

The nice part about this is the dog can stay on the formula's without a terrrible outcome.  You will need a couple bottles to give a try though, maybe 3;  have to give twice a day when you first start then you can drop it down to once per day after a short while.  The pain med I only use when needed, intermittently is OK, it still works and has a short 3 hour period and they sleep it off.  Great stuff.  Nan  Good luck

PS:  It is a clear liquid formula.  Just so you know.  Nan

Has there been any discussion about whether he's a candidate for surgical intervention or not?  Other than this present issue that's come up which apparently is a secondary complication of the damaged disks, he's in good health, so I would think it worth investigating.

WRT the use of an NSAID such as Rimadyl, sometimes there are no other alternatives--it is unconscionable and unethical to make the animal endure pain because we're afraid of an adverse response to a pain relieving medication, and it's at that point one has to decide which route will be traveled: use the NSAID, monitor closely, ignore NOTHING that could signal a problem related to the meds and give the dog pain relief...or go as far as possible to control the pain without NSAIDs, and once that threshold is reached, euthanize the dog and release him or her from their pain.  I would hate to see this decision have to be made so soon in Chance's new lifetime, but all of us hating to see that won't do anything to make it not so. Nans mentioned that she prefers using Deramaxx if a NSAID is necessary, but I can tell you that there's a segment of the population that feels about the same way about it that others do about Rimadyl--not as many, most likely, but only because Deramaxx has not been used as widely as Rimadyl, so there's been less people exposed to the product. Ditto Metacam [generic is meloxicam]--it's rarely used in large dogs, so much less adverse effect reporting has occurred. 

If an NSAID is unavoidable, a discussion with the treating vet as to how they feel about scripting generic meloxicam tablets; there is no generic form of meloxicam approved for  veterinary use at present, and the cost of the only formulations that are approved for veterinary use is prohibitive for large dogs...but meloxicam is available in generic form for human patients in 7.5 mg tablets, which can be split to achieve the correct dosage if the vet is comfortable doing so, and a script for 45 tablets @, say, WalMart pharmacy, is around $10-$12.  The adverse effects of meloxicam in dogs is typically GI upset, but it appears to be less of a problem for the liver and kidneys to process, and it's a once-daily dosage which makes it pretty convenient as well. 

That said, there are other options for pain control that can be considered, such as tramadol, but no matter what is used, if it's sufficient to address the kind of pain that comes with degenerative joint disease, damaged disks and vertebrae, then you can be sure there are going to be potential serious adverse effects associated with the product as well. There's nothing you can give that is risk-free AND effective. One nice thing about tramadol is that it can safely be given in conjunction with NSAIDs if the dog needs additional pain relief on board.

Hoping Chance's situation improves, and REALLY hope that there's something that can be done to eliminate the problem disks entirely so he doesn't have further issues with them in the future.

The good thing with Metacam is that it can be titered to the lowest effective dose (in liquid form only... you cant do this with pills).  As with ANY NSAID though... bloodwork should be monitored.  A pre-bloodtest, and then a 6 week post, and then every 6 months to ensure the body is handling it o.k.  I personally love Rimadyl.

Tramadol is a wonderful pain reliever, as mentioned above... but for nerve related pain, Gabapentin is fanstastic.  Sometimes we use all three (multi-modal pain relief)... since they all work differently. 

Hope things are going well, would love another update!

amysavesjacks, yeah, I've never had any bad experiences with Rimadyl in my own dogs, either...but for long-term use, I do prefer to go the meloxicam route if at all possible.

AND--I NEVER give an NSAID of any type without having the dog on a milk thistle extract product as well. I never say 'no' to giving the liver some help staying healthy.

Thank you all for your very thoughtful responses :) I am passing the information on. I don't think surgery is an option due to financial constraints.
Poor girl took out a home equity loan to pay for his emergency stay and ongoing treatment.

Chance is thankfully not in any pain. The reason why I am asking about anti inflammatories it to keep the injured disk from pressing on the nerve
in the future, to keep him from going through this again if at all possible. He was a happy boy the other night, rolling around on the ground like a
goof begging for belly rubs.

There is no more infection in his bladder, urine is clear. He is still having trouble emptying his bladder.... he'll go a bit here, a bit there and so on.
Chance can't just pee it all out at once.

The vet has already made it known (and we feel the same way) that he will not cath Chance for life. It is no life for a dog to need to be catheterized
every day just so he can live. That is not fair. SO, with that being said, the vet is still hopeful and is happy with Chance's progress thus far.

It was good seeing him. He is such a good boy.

As for the rimadyl, Vicki's patrol dog was PTS due to liver failure on rimadyl. He was on it for long term (prior "trainer" bashed him up against a wall
and injured his spine) and my first dog who was on long term rimadyl therapy also had liver problems (although in her later years, tramadol
was the med of choice)

Melissa

Melissa, I hope it didn't come off as if I were minimizing anyone's bad experiences with Rimadyl, or any medication--that absolutely was not my intention, and I apologize if that's the impression I gave in my post.  I mention my dogs and Rimadly only because a personal loss is NOT the reason I prefer to use meloxicam for my dogs if they're on a NSAID long-term--but the losses suffered by others do factor into that decision, along with the primary reason of the once-per-day dosage that fits better with my bizarre work schedule than multi-dose medications. 

MicroLactin, marketed in a veterinary formulation as Duralactin, is an OTC anti-inflammatory product that may be of some help--but it's similar to glucosamine/chondroitin supplements, in that it seems to be helpful for some animals, not so much for others, but it really doesn't have any adverse effects as long as the dog doesn't have problems with milk-derived products [it's derived from the milk of hyper-immunized cows].  I've used it for a dog that had osteoarthritis that affected her spine, and it did prove helpful for her, allowing me to hold off on starting her on tramadol or NSAIDs for pain control until she was well into her senior years. It's available in powdered form for human use, and it's slightly less expensive to purchase it in that form than the veterinary-labeled product, and my dogs have never balked at eating their meals with it mixed into their food. [There's some evidence that MicroLactin has some effect on hyperactive autoimmune response, so I've got my senior dog with discoid lupus on it at present, and I have reason to believe it is aiding him in that regard.]

I understand about the financial constraints regarding surgical intervention for the disks...it would be nice to know if that's an option, none the less, and maybe even see if a ball-park could be gotten on cost. Who knows? Maybe one of us here will win the next Powerball or something, and be in a position to help out.  The starfish principle, y'know? No reason it couldn't happen, after all...

Latest Update:

Chance is back to his normal self! Yay! He is peeing completely normal and even "lifted" a piece of unattended pecan pie. He is loving his new
bed that he received for Christmas :)

Thank you all for your support! All of the information has been passed on :)

Melissa

Hooray!!! So happy to hear he is doing well!

Excellent!