Czech/DDR/WG Working Lines - Page 1

Can someone please explain the real difference in these three working lines traits & characteristics wise? I would like to know the differences in these dogs. Not the physical but things like temperament, nerves, prey drive, defense drive. Also what are some of the outcomes of crosses of these lines?

Specifically interested in if you cross a West German Working line w/ a Czech working line.
Sire: Chomps Swagger von Jägerhaus
Dam:Onyx z Hrdinneho Odvahy

Dog: Chomps Swagger von Jägerhaus

I have a 2 year old mostly all West German Working Line male. He has opened doors for me that I never even knew were possible! He is my whole soul, he amazes me everyday! He is hard to physical correction, sensitive to verbal command, high drive that can settle instantly when instructed, extremely quick to react, athletically maneuverable, strong civil aggression AND easy social behavior, alert and confident of surroundings, strong bites! His build and his structure are lean & muscular, weighs 90 pounds, he’s very intelligent BUT it did take him awhile to mature…. I’d say around 1 1/2 years he was starting to get it. At the age of 2 years he’s made a good drastic change mentally.

Dog: Jr Sable von Jägerhaus

Now I have an almost 3 year old male German shepherd who is what I would say is more from DDR/Czech working lines…. His pedigree is kinda all over the place. Some west German, some Czech & a lot of DDR in the past generations. His mother’s side is questionable, a lot of AKC. A lot of “unknown” dogs or unentered dogs from generations 5-7. Now mind you, I got him when I didn’t know a thing about purchasing “responsibly ethically bred dogs” so don’t come for me! Lol
He has some really good well known dogs in past generations.
He is a very large male (definitely out of standard), huge chest, big head, weighs 103 pounds. He is very sensitive to correction, genetically he has full deep bites, strong bites, but if there’s no fight, he doesn’t want it. Has a whole a lot of defensive drive but little prey drive, more of a medium drive all together, civil aggression, a little on the nervy side, loves his immediate family but anyone from the outside he is aggressive towards. He loves to please, is very intelligent, & matured very very quickly.

Now from what I’ve read the DDR lines are the larger, more medium drive, nervy dogs of the three working lines….
The West German is more of the athletic sporty type, more well rounded of the three.
Now the Czech lines I’ve read can go both ways you can either get a really good one that shows similarities to the WGWL or you can get a not so good one that relates more to the DDR lines… Thoughts, opinions, comments!!??

Well I sèe no one want to answer this post. I ll tell you what I have found over the years. I have all the lines. Some all one line but I have done my share of mixing them.
Of all my dogs, to be quite truthful, I had my German Showline, Xoltan Bullinger who would have gave any dog, of any line a run for the money. He was a very bold, strong dog. Very willing to please, very prey driven with a great deal of defensive drive. I am told he had a bone breaking grip too. Very sociable, but would keep strangers in their place. There was no place I wouldn't have gone with him by my side. He feared no one or nothing. Best dog ever!
I had a little full DDR female with the heart of a lion. She was out of Grafental Kennel in Germany. Also, no fear of no one or nothing. Very loyal and devoted dog. Loved kids, but wasn't t afraid to put her teeth to what she seen as a threat. Some people say your dog won t protect you, that most shepherds will not actually bite someone if put in the position too defend you. I have found that to be totally untrue.
Al's right up there with the brave heart, but calmer disposition is my Bomber girl ,Cookie. I was actually attacked one day by someone with a loaded shotgun, jammed me head on in vehicle,pushing my car backward, getting out and putting gun to my head, then running her over as she was coming to my defense, she got up with tire tracks over her head and body and went in pursuit. When police arrived, she went to every car and every officer looking for assailant. Everyone shocked she was still looking for this guy. She half Czech half wgwl. I have her son, that is from her and a mix of my showline/DDR cross. Wouldn't t trade him for tbe world. And talk about a bit out of standard, he's a good 130lb boy, but just loves everyone, and everyone loves him. He has drives that could drive you around the world, or drive you crazy because he can go on and on all day and never tire.
I have a Czech dog I got when he was year old. He's a bit extreme. Not a dog for everyone. He has prof training for IPO, but I think he may have been trained with a little to much pressure at an early age. He will take correction only if he thinks he needed to be corrected. I had a trainer try to dominate him and he was having no part of it. If I didn't t intervene, the guy would have got seriously injured by this dog. He too is a big boy. Not knowing exactly what was done to him, I Don t really trust him around to many people. He is suspicious of everyone.The breeder of that dog breeds mostly police dogs. Even tho he is on the larger size he is agile as can be. He has jumped clean over my head before out playing in the field. He gets carried away and would,, and could (and has),easily taken me down just playing.
I have a couple of other full GSL dogs from VA1 parents that Don t come close to tbe heart or stamina of my Bullinger boy. In fact none of my dogs do. He was one of a kind. Now I have had three of my dogs go on to be certified police K9's. Those were DDR and showline cross dogs. In fact those are the ones who went on for sport dogs.
Now I have a couple females that are smaller in size, but bolder in confidence that are DDR, WGSL, and WGWL that aren't t afraid to confront a person either. One female was stolen when she was 6 months old, after a week, the police brought her back, the person(people) were charged with grand larceny, but I Don t know what happened in that week that they had her, but she came back a biter. And I m not talking a fear biter either. She goes for the face, the upper arms,and will circle you and come back again and again. She is getting better now but for the past year, I had to be on high alert with her. She has bitten more then one person that has come to the house. I can t say tho that those she has taken a bite out of, she didn't t feel they were deserving of them bites. And I hate to admit, I can t say that I had to disagree with her choices.
Other people come and go with no problem. Go figure.
Now I got to add, I have all these dogs that live together with me, several males and several females. They are not kept in kennels or crates with the exception of the Czech male. He is in a kennel. He was older when he got here and my dogs were not very accepting of him. He is fine with the female dogs and puppies, but no go with the males.
Maybe not what you were looking for, but that's just my dealings with the different lines. Every line has some of the most well known dogs from them lines.
I also started with mostly AKC dogs of unknown parents and grandparents. Which I must admit were some really really nice dogs. And I got to add, I have been extremely fortunate in the health department. I have not gad to deal with any genetic or otherwise health issues with any of my dogs,or their puppies.

6 basic lines. Some years ago, Prager wrote an excellent post about the different characteristics between the different lines here on PDB, but I'm but having difficulty locating the thread.

Different lines have different characteristics. Not all Czech GSD are the same.

In general, Czech has higher drive, harder, and smaller than DDR and sometimes harder to train. DDR higher drive than WGSL.

Yes, you can cross a WGSL with a Czech working line.

I had a gorgeous dog that was this that I got from a third party. She was extremely loyal, steady, and would have done very well as a medical, psychiatric, or PTSD service dog. She was out of breed standard, 115 pounds of no fat. A lot of people asked for puppies, but since she was outside of breed standard, breeding her was never an option. She gave the Siberian Husky that was the other dog in the house, who was a couple months older than she, as good as she got, but simply couldn't run as fast, and the Sibe was alpha, anyway.

The dogs you choose to breed depend on what you are trying to achieve in the litter. Are you trying for puppies to be suitable for police/military, high level sport, personal protection, SAR, medical/psychiatric service dogs, or? The bottom line is will the pairing improve the breed or create/perpetuate problems?

I know and trust Sarah at Kennel z Hrdinneho Odvahy. She's absolutely devoted to health of the puppies and breed as a whole. Her contact information is on the kennel website. She can advise whether or not the pairing would be good for what you want to achieve. She can tell you about the puppy and her parents and lineage. FWIW, Onyx is a nice looking pup :-)

I got a puppy from Sarah many years ago, and she was the absolute best for her original intended purpose LE. When I retired, I retrained her as my medical service dog, and she's doing fine, although sometimes doesn't understand "retired," which was a good thing recently.

If I find the thread, I'll post a link in this thread.

I paired my female WGSL with Old Czech working (basically DDR).
I do not sell puppies for show or competition. Although I have no doubt many of them could have done well.
These two dogs of mine produced over 30 offspring. Not a single complaint on any of them. All of them are still with original purchasers and doing well. 2 of them are certified service dogs.
If you read the SV breed description, it does not distinguish between the separate lines or “sub breeds”.
My opinion is, so long as there is a long history of good physical and mental health of sire and dam, do it!
The only problem I have mixing show and working lines is that many buyers are afraid of the working line. There is a stereotype associated with working dogs. Many people fear them because of police and military use. This can be true of some of them. The same is also true of some Showline dogs. If I can get potential buyers to come meet my male and female, they always leave with a pup. Only two times ever did someone come look and not take a puppy.