RECALL PROBLEMS - Page 1

My 15 month old working line German Shepherd has nice ball drive along with hunt & prey drive. However when he gets his reward which is a ball on a rope and when it is time to return he wants to ignore me and run and make me look stupid for 5 minutes trying to get him to release the ball. We have a good bond and his ball drive is there but he is "stubborn". I will say that he has good training habits but I do not trust him fully off leash as he does get very independent at times. I am doing my best to get him ready for CGC & BH but i'm nervous he is going to not be ready because he does get stubborn on recall at times. I sound like a girl with all the praise & use his ball but still am unsure. Any good advice on other things to try would be appreciated.

Carry a 2nd ball with you.. teach him the 2 ball game.

Melissa

I second Melba.

Get a second ball.

Right now you are allowing him to self reward. You're also making it a game for him when you try to get him to come to you.

You might also try ignoring him, walk away....or keep him on a very long long line...let him drag it around while playing with him and if he doesn't come when asked....bring him to you.

This is a very hard habit to break once established, so nip it in the butt ASAP. I have a male that will self reward if given the opportunity.

BTW....sounding like a girl is just good cheer leading :)

I've heard 200# plus men hit octaves I didn't think were possible, while training a dog, nothing to be embarrassed about.

Good Luck 

I don't have a quick fix but I do have an 8 mo. pup doing the same thing. I just totally ignore the ball or tug and he will now come instead of thinking we are playing chase. After I pet him up, I pull out the second ball, he drops his and is ready for the next pitch.

I'm unsure of the next step to take, so am looking forward to any info provided.

the more you think about this issue ie your nerves,  the more you will reinforce it imo. i would give it a break and start again in a more confined area, even a hallway/corridor in your house then progress to back yard with dog on a long line and always be running backwards to receive the ball. one of my pups had zero ball drive and less drive to retrieve so i shaped it in a hallway with markers and food, now she is great but her mind set is not fetch per se but a task that must be completed to get reward - she will never think chasing a stupid ball is a worthwhile activity in it's own right, randomise reward, rinse and repeat = conditioned response. hope it works out, all dogs are different.

Think more basic.  He doesn't think playing ball with you is fun.  The two ball idea sometimes works but its the lazy way and it doesn't fix the underlying problem.  He should WANT to bring the ball back to you because you make it more fun for him then he can by himself.  I start with mine right away when I get them teaching that.  They will get a ball and turn around and run and almost knock me over hitting me so that we can play together.  Think about how this behavior is going to negatively impact your retrieves.  And you can't use two ball to fix that.  You have to make it fun for him.  Make him want to play with you and the ball. 

Having similar  problems with my now almost 1 year old boy;    sometimes if stimulated by other dogs that "might" play with him he won't come back to me;  goes off to find play.  I was told by my trainers that first off:  HE IS NOT READY FOR OFF LEASH WORK...

Second we think we might have started this all by ourselves as after his training at another facility and after they work hard and run hard and train hard they are allowed to play off leash with another dog of similar personality, in closed pen and supervised;  that started with puppyhood.  NOW, it has affected his recall.  So no more of that stuff, and work at home with secure area for recall and hit it every single time;  no not coming when called.  In house, outside, off leash in house, not off leash outside of fenced yard but on long line in front yard, distrations are coming;  I have used our own dogs in house with him on leash and off leash our dogs running around him free;  HE HAS TO COME...  

That is our current program.  Keep your fingers crossed and until we master this;  you cannot go forward with training.  Call it a glitch or call it whatever you want BUT it can become  a serious problem if not nipped in the BUTT as was stated in previous post.  Thanks for sharing though sometimes it just helps to know other people have the same problems;  probably not the "PROS"  but for sure us laymens.  Have a great time training; 

PS:  Also another person mentioned to us to up the annie so to speak;  get a fool proof reward like we tried Romano cheese, good and stinky, even sharp chedder has worked pretty well.  Show the dog the cheese before you release him on long line,  make sure he wants to return to you;  if food reward does not work, favorite toy reward, praise, praise, praise.  She basically stated for us to start over.  We were so bumbed, but it has worked so far.  Start from square one, find out where you went wrong and go forward.  Good luck  Nan  Also work on the focus on you...

Thank You everyone all of this helps. bzcz, your advice sticks out to me because I feel that way about it when we are working on it. I don't want to sound as if this is my first rodeo because I do have confidence in what me & my buddy accomplish together but sometimes I get in my own way & get stumped. Am I missing the obvious when I say that I am as up beat and cheerful when playing with him in recall work? Bczc, your recommendations?

My recommendation is treat it like helperwork.  Use the ball instead of a sleeve, bring out the whip.  Most dogs w ill bring the sleeve back to a helper, emulate that.  Keep him on a leash and when you release the ball you need to snag the leash and run with him, crack the whip and tug with the ball.  Mix it up to, drive him with the ball let him drag you, let him win the vast majority of the time so when you "slip the ball(sleeve)",he comes back to you to reinitiate the play.  Get him to sit and hold ball in front of you for a split second then release him, snag ball and play.  High energy, varied play. You should be panting too when you do it right.  

It takes time but this will build team with your dog and get rid of the conflict between you two.  Does this help?

good post BZCZ .. 

I have the same problems too. 

Leerburg says in his video that " Make the dog want to play with you not the toy" . It is easier said then done.

Most people never even teach the retrieve but their dogs do that the day they are asked to. We have an adult gsd who goes to the field since puppyhood and we never rewarded or even praised hip for bringing the ball back to us. He loves to chase the ball thats why he always brings it to our feet wanting us to through again. Another Female loves to chase but would not bring the ball to us, it would rather keep a distance from us and be very chewy/mouthy with the ball.